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manish1
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Posted - 18 July 2005 : 16:11:01
Jai Shri Krishna,
Let havelis and satsang halls be the starting point into learning about Pushtimarg and not the final goal. so these places will encourage vaishnavs to learn about pushtimarg and help them apply the teachings in practice.
so final goal can be encouraged to be Gruha seva. why the change, which is being asked by Shreekanh bhai.
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But however, the fact remains that more and more vaishanvs today opt a Mandir oriented seva, than Nijseva. The question to be addressed is why so ?
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Shreekant bhai, please advise us why you think this is happening? do you think that is it only because people are taking this as an escape route or an easy way out??
Manish
Jai Shree Krishna
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pushtidas
Mover & Shaker Member
398 Posts
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Posted - 18 July 2005 : 23:29:36
Jai Shree Krishna
I think the point was to enhance the reason why vaishnavs were visiting Haveli in olden times. There were many reasons why we go to Haveli Shrikantbhaiji.
As far as Graha seva was concerned, it was a norm in olden days and my comment was only relevant to those olden days.
In London we still have many vaishnavs who indulge in Graha seva and they also visit Haveli. We have not adopted the new fashion of not doing graha seva and only visit Haveli. But then who knows of future.
Dasa no das
Pushtidas
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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004
1853 Posts
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Posted - 19 July 2005 : 12:08:22
Jai Shree Krishna
Pushtidasji, aap Vaishnavs in London, Uk, and else were doing Gruha seva a standing examples of Vaishnavta. It is indeed heartening that inspite of the various odds, living in a absolutely different social ambience, the dhrudta of aapshree Vasihnavs is truely praiseworthy, Vandaniya I should say.
Well, Manish bhai, the very idea of posting this topic is to understand and realise were do we stand today as Vasishnavs ? Are we on the right track or are we taking a diversion, from were to return may be too late.
Let us indulge in this self analysis and judge ourselves, more than individuals, a community as a whole.
Today we seem to be standing at the croos roads of innumerable Havelis and slowly inching (hopefully not) towards numerable Gruha sevas.
I too would like to know are we shrugging our responcibality with respect to Gruha seva ????
Hope more Vaishnavs will present there opinions too.
Shree Vallabha dheesh ki jai
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pushtidas
Mover & Shaker Member
398 Posts
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Posted - 19 July 2005 : 13:39:02
Jai Shree Krishna
This is my understanding that Haveli did not exist when Pushtimarg was initiated by our divine Shree Vallabh and aapshree always said:
Krushna seva sada kariya
So what Shreekantbhaiji is relaying is, although we have Haveli and all other new Haveli's are croping up, are we really not swaying our ways set by Shree Vallabh and gradually moving away from Graha Seva?
In Pushtimarga our Vaishnav kartaviya is Krushna seva sada kariya and that means it is every vaishnavs duty to follow the humble graha seva. Sometimes we have seen Vallabh has decided the norm of seva (seva na prakar) for different sevak with different seva, for instance, gau-seva.
So I think we are moving from actual teachings and graha seva. Is that right? Are we really doing the right thing? Not doing graha seva and only visiting Haveli only, is this not a mariyada type seva?
Please note above is personal opiniate, and I also say that we should do graha seva and visit Haveli, no harm in that proto system.
Dasa no das
Pushtidas
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chiragdoshi
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Posted - 19 July 2005 : 14:00:43
Jai Shree Krishna,
Very well said by Shri pushtidas, That we should of course visit haveli for the darshan & to learn how to do seva of Shree Thakorji at home. We can learn that by doing satsang with the Bhagvadi's & telling our doubts to our Shree Vallabh. (If Shree Vallabh is birajman). By taking darshan in haveli we can learn what Vastra, Shringars, Etc.....should we offer to Shree Thakorji. Yes we have Seva Prakar pustak at our home to learn, but there is lot's of difference in read & learn and look & learn. So, I think so by going to haveli is not skipping our Gruh seva or the Nij seva of Shree Thakorji.
Jai Shree Krishna.
Vaishnav
(Chirag Doshi)
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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004
1853 Posts
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Posted - 20 July 2005 : 13:36:04
Jai Shree Krishna
Well, if one is going to haveli to learn and understand seva and incorporate the same in Gruh seva, then its ok. But the question we are pondering over is not such a situation, here hte situation is were there no gruha seva, and not just visiting havelis, but even generating new ones, for ones convenience, so that Gruha seva may be avoided.
Is this correct ?
As rightly said by Pushtidasji, Is this not a maryada type seva ? A Synonym to visiting other devalays ??
These are the few basic questions that arise form the discussion so far, which each and every Vaishnav should answer (if not at the forum to himself) ?
1.As per Pushitmarg what is SEVA ? Why we as Pushtimargiya Vaishnav should do seva ? What kind of seva ?
2.Did Shree Vallabh, prescribe to, recommend Havelis?
3.While the origin of Havelis as homes of Shree Vallabh balak, and their multilocations is understood, the present day plethora of Havelis, which are not necessarily homes of the Vallabhkul, nor have historic significance but have their origin related to a group of vaishnavs desire for the same, and hence established. Are such havelis a welcome trend ?
Arent we shying away from Nijseva??
3. While even the very havelis when being formed at new locations, say a new counrty, a new society, etc, definetly are justified due to their role in ensuring a knowledge base for Vaishnavs of the town/area/city country. To establish such havelis at complexes, at similar locations purely for personal benifits, are they acceptable?
4.What is the need of seva, and if no nijseva, then are we indulging in Pushtibhakthi at all ?
Shree Vallabha dheesh ki jai
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jatin
Pushtikul Ethics Director / P.E.M. June 2003
424 Posts
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Posted - 21 July 2005 : 11:16:19
Good post Shreekantbhai...
Lot of Discussion...
May be am repating many of the things....
As per my opinion Haveli Should be there....i will give my example only i started going in to haveli when i was in 10th stanadard, i joined pathshala over there and learnt about pushtimarg otherwise i would have not before that sometime i used to go for darshan but now days almost daily am going at haveli there we get the seva also (All three seva )sometime upto limited extent special in tanuja seva but am happy with that much of seva also.....it's not wrong if more havelis are getting built up only condition is that it has to be under Goswami Balaks it should not be purely belonging to Vaishnavs
In Pushtimarg Thakorji Seva is compulsory and we have to it.
Many of the manoraths cannot be done at Gruh it can be done only in haveli with the agya of Goswami Balaks
Am not objecting Haveli Seva or Gruh seva as per my opinion both has to be done .....but first prefrece should be Gruh Seva but we should skip haveli as well.....
Correct if i am wrong
Shree Dwarikadhiski Jai
Shree Sri Lalji Pyare Ki Jai
Jatin Malkan
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sudhir
Entry Level Member
7 Posts
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Posted - 21 July 2005 : 11:21:28
Jay Shree Krishna 
In our life time, say last 60 to 70 years,has anyone thought or imagined a place without any haveli ? The answer is no.Inspite of this fact, there are vaishnavs who have successfully carried out Gruh Seva and have become very dear to Krishna.
That is because that vaishnav was showered upon by lots of grace from Shree Vallabh,in turn from
Shree Krishna. That means Havelis have not hurt any one but if anything Havelis have helped many. Because the bright side is that Vaishnavs going to Haveli start thought process. They may become lucky to get right sung (company),say satsang, and may get inspired to follow Gruh Seva. If he is not worthy of Shree Vallabh grace due to any reason and does not do Gruh Seva, he will at least engage in darshan of Shree Krishna and come closer to Him, hopefully by purifying himself.It is a win-win situation for all.
As I emphasised in my earlier posting,Shree Vallabh principles and teching should be promoted seriously and effectively so the value, importance and ultimately the need are realised so much so that one is bound to inspire to do Gruh Seva.
Besides there are various phases of Gruh Seva.
This is a matter of Kripa or Pushti only that to what extent vaishnav will carry out the Gruh Seva.
Under these days and age I do not know how can we even undo or reverse the reality of Havelis and Temples around us. Only thing we can do is to use to our advantage to understand the truth.
Edited by - sudhir on July 21 2005 11:23:21
Jay Shree Krisna
Sudhir Mathuria
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pushtidas
Mover & Shaker Member
398 Posts
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Posted - 21 July 2005 : 13:22:46
Jai Shree Krishna
Well said Shreekantji, we have so many dwidha (problems) in understanding, practicing and then imbibing in the Path Of Grace.
Pushtimarg means Path Of Grace. That means if Shree Vallabh bestow Grace upon us then we will be initiated in Pushti seva. We know that, all five fingers in the hand is not of the same size, so is the Pushti-Jiva (vaishnavs) characters and bhava, hence, we have Mariyada Pravahi Jiva, Pushti Jiva, Purna Pushti Jiva, Pushta Pushti Jiva, etc...etc...etc..
Why such division? Well all Jiva is not bestowed with Graha Seva, although the fundaments Of Pushtimarg is Graha Seva; we see examples of various seva bestowed on dufferent sevak by Shree Vallabh and Shree Vithalnathji.
Now after saying the above, if everyone go to Haveli and do not do Graha Seva, then, I am afraid there will be a situation whereupon Haveli will be conjusted and not every soul will be able to get that seva which he is wishing. Secondly, not everone, especially vaishnavs who live in villages or far away from Haveli, be able to travel everyday to Haveli, hence to their benefit, Vallabh has deviced the Graha Seva as well.
One most important point is that Shree Vallbah was the First Swaroop who had cleared that conotation of discrimination with women in our Hindu relegion. In Vaidik rituals women folks were not allowed to perform without men (husband) but in Pushtimarga we have women doing seva without any restrictions.
A woman when become widow, she is still carrying on Graha Seva but, unfortunately, she is not allowed into Haveli to do certain Manorath, neither Vahuji will entertain her in Janana Graha.
All this stipulates that although Havelis are nowadays, springing up all over the world like pop-corns, we must as well insist the first sidhant of Shree Vallabh to do Graha Seva. Both Haveli and Graha Seva must have a prominant place in Pushtimarg and in Vaishnavs daily chores.
All above is my opinion.
Dasa no das
Pushtidas
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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004
1853 Posts
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Posted - 21 July 2005 : 17:58:22
Jai Shree Krishna
Thankyou for your kind words Pushtidasji.
Sudhir bhai, Jatin bhai, Very good view points and very thought leading to. Let me clarify that the query at no point is against havelis. The purose of raising this topic is to logivally understand the emergence of innumerable havelis in recent history.
Let us take this step by step.....
Shree Vallabhs era:
The stress by Mahaprabhuji was only in Gruha seva and naam seva. While the socio-cultural situation on one hande necessitated such a practice, as rightly pointed out by Pushtidasji, it also led to many social reforms in the Hindu religious society.
Apart from this, from what we can understand reading the 84 vaishnav varthas is that Acharyacharan only preached Gruha seva, and if not then naam seva. To no one Aapshree has said do phool seva at so and so house or have Shree Thakorjis darshan daily at this vaishnavs house. Further inspite of having manywea lthy vaishnavs as sevaks, to no one has Shree Vallabh ever expressed the desire to have temple. On the contrary, even Shree Govardhandharans abode was finally accpeted with Shikhars as Thakorjis itcha, and not the personal wish of Shree Vallabhacharya.
Shree Gusainjis era:
After moving away from Adel, there came into existance the large mansion homes of Shree Vitthalnathji, even then only know as Ghar only, the msot famous one being the Satghara of Mathura. With the influence of Rajasthans culture, did the Havelis emerge, a distinct name given to Palatial homes, and hence used as refrence to Shree Gusainji and the seven balaks homes. Mind you no separate independent havelis existed even now.
The next generation of Saat Gaadhis:
With the Sanctification of the seven Gaadhis, the various peeths were formed, and from then on the individual Peeths established themselves and willfully started propogating the marg, to the best of thier abilities.
Then on...
The socio-political scenerio since then saw many a migrations, and hence with the movement of gobalaks to various locations all over the nation, and later across the seas saw the emergence of many havelis.
However, these Havelis slowly emerged independently more out of Vaishnavs desire, initially though the need was due to alien ambience, lack of motivation etc. But as we see today they are emerging more thanks to the wims and fancies of us Vaishnavs.
The question is Does a Vaishnav have the right to establish a Haveli ?
And why Haveli? Why not Nijseva ?
I repeat my initial query again....
Are we shying away from accepting the responcibality of Nijseva, and adopting the Haveli route for our convenience ?
Is going to Haveli and doing some kind of seva at our wims and fancies, seva at all.
'chalo bhai aaje Suday che, Mandir jayi aaviye',
Arre, aaje to Agyaras che, chalo mandir ma mala kari aviye', is this what is SEVA, being done as per our wish, our free time ?
Let us for a moment compare this with the siddhant of Pushitmarg, do they match?
Do they Co-relate ?
Do our actions justify even the simple guideline of SEVA.... The Sukh of Pratyaksh biraajmaan our Poornapurushottam prabhu ????
Edited by - shreekant22 on July 21 2005 18:01:01
Shree Vallabha dheesh ki jai
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