Dandvat Jeje,

You have done kripa and provided an answer to a very important discussion that is going on here.

" Vaarta Saahitya mein bhi nijbhakton ko Shriji sanmukh tatha Shri NAVNEETPRIYAji sanmukh Nij Grahon mein DARSHAN,MARGIYA PADHATTI tatha Saampradayik Sukshmtaon se Aacharyon ne Parichit karaaya hi hai..."

But I am not able to understand exactly what the above words mean, so please let me verify.  Does it mean that in the 84/252 vaishnavs, there are prasangs where Shri Acharyaji has allowed Nij-Vaishnavs to have darshan of Shri Govardhannathji and Shri Navneetpriyaji.

Like the Ashtasakhas (Govindswami...) who did kirtan seva of Shriji, and Shri Thakurji was so sanubhav to them that he played with them, even hit them with stones. And this sanubhav was while in a haveli. According to me Shri Thakurji has never differentiated between Vallabh's sevaks, as to where he was doing seva. Haveli or Nij-Ghar. He has always looked towards the bhav.

Are there any prasangs where Shriji or Shri Vallabh has said that those who do seva in the house or those who visit havelis "also" while doing gruh seva will get different results. One is a higher jeeva and the other one lower. Is there any such comparision. Then what about prasangs such as Govindswami, Gajjan Dhawan and innumerable such vaishnavs.

Is my thinking on the same lines of what you have said ?

Pranam,

PG

Shri Chaturth Peeth

Shrimad Gokul, Baroda

|| ShriGokulesho Jayati ||

Dandwat Pranam Pujya ShriVitthalraiji Bavashri and ShriManmathraiji Bavashri,

    And Jai Jai ShriGokulesh to All Sevak-Vaishnavas.

Dear Tusharji (PG) the question u pointed is worthful. But it is not the thing, whiich we understand. If we refer the Vaarta Prasangs very very carefully, Only few sevak-vaishnavas were allowed to have Darshan of ShriNavnitpriyaji. Shrinathji bava is the Optional case, as it was the own Wish of Shrinathji bava to reside in Public Place. But ShriNavnitpriyaji and other Pushti-Sevya-Swaroops were been served in the family of ShriMahaprabhuji. So When we read the Vaarta Prasangs,at some places we find the AAgyna (orders) of ShriMahaprabhuji or ShriGusaijiprabhucharan that aapshri gave aagyna to have Darshana, And that too was only for few sevak-vaishnavas. So it does not interprete them to follow the Haveli Prakaar. And For Govind Swami's prasang, Govind swami's life was Shrinathji, and Shrinathji bava used to talk, walk, play eat, etc Do all the Kriyas with Govind Swami. So if we can follow such life, then there is no haveli or gruh seva. It's purely Pure Non-Dual Love for ShriPrabhu by Sevak.

    We will not find any prasangs, but 1 Vaarta Prasang of Ramdas who used to serve ShriThakurji at home, but when ShriMahaprabhuji gave aagyna to stay in Seva of Shrinathji bava at Shrijidwar, then had to follow the aagyna. But still was feeling the taap-bhaav for own shriprabhu which was been served by him. We can read the vaarta prasangs. So no  such  orders given for both gruh seva and haveli seva, as it is not the Siddhant.

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

Dandvat Pranam to Vallabhkul

Bhagvad Smaran to all Vaishnavs

Going through the last couple of msgs I have some doubts which are highly related to the topic going on. Please do not think I am going off topic, I will explain when I receive the answers to those doubts.

Dear Gopalji, you write:

1. Jai Jai ShriGokulesh (other vaishnavs say 'Jai Shri Krishna')
2. You write ' Shri Gokulesho Jayati'
3. Respected Shri Vitthalraiji belongs to ' Chaturth Peeth' (out of 7 peeths in Sampradaya)
4. The tilak shown in His letterhead is different to what is generally done.
5. Every Respected Vallabhkul has ' Goswami' as a title.

Please do not get me wrong. Not for a moment am I doubting or inquiring right now about the reasons behind these beautiful traditions. I know so less about the sampradaya, it would be quite foolish to do so.These are just some salient points that sprang out while reading the last few msgs. My doubt is...

How many of these traditions (and so many others) began as an agya of Shri Vallabh or where incorporated during his times ? or were these added as the sampradaya went on spreading under his illustrious Kul.

I repeat, this is not off topic, and you will realise from the question the direction in which my doubts are headed.

Tushar.

Dear Gopalji,

One more query,

All the prasangs that I mentioned have been regarded by you as follows:

1. Shrinathjibava is the optional case
2. Govindswami's prasang cannot be followed
3. Ramdasji cannot be quoted

Is it really reasonable to grade everything that is not suitable to our logic as ' Exceptions or impossibilities'  that cannot be accepted as justification.

Tushar.

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh

      Tusharji for ur first query of why Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,?? many of the sevak-vaishnavs from other shrigurudwars do say this, and so 1 topic i tried to discuss here's below link will help to solve the query.

http://www.pushtikul.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1409&FORUM_ID=1&CAT_ID=7&Topic_Title=%3Cb%3EWhy+Jai+Jai+ShriGokulesh%3F%3C%2Fb%3E&Forum_Title=%3Cb%3EDisscuss+it+all%2E+%3C%2Fb%3E

   For second query, we write ShriGokulesho Jayati It is the Vijay of ShriChaturthkumar ShriGokulnathji, as i m the follower of ShriGokuleshprabhu's dwar, so i write. U will find that many write, 

||Shri Hari||

||Vijayte Shri BALKRISHNA PRABHU|| ,

etc, so it's the respect to the ShriGurudwar, ShriPrabhu whom they r serving as a sevak.

For 3rd query, The present Aacharya at ShriChaturthpeeth of Suddhadwait Pushtimarg is Chaturthpeethadhishwar Pujyacharan Gurudev Goswamey ShriDevkinandanacharyashri (ShriSureshbavashri -- Shrimad Gokul) And Pujyacharan Goswamey ShriVitthalraiji Bavashri is the AAtmaj of ShriGurudev ShriDevkinandanacharyashri.

4th query. The followers of ShriGusaiji's Chaturthkumar ShriGokulnathji Maharajshri Does the tilak of '||' shaped. So normally we find U shaped, which is been accepted by other 6 dwars of pushtimarg, but Chaturthpeeth Followers does the '||' -- Dandakaar tilak. This topic we had discussed here on pushtikul.

5th. We call the Vallabhkul Balaks as Goswami..... This is the Respect mark for a Vallabhkul Balak. ShriMahaprabhuji's Dwitiya Aatmaj ShriVitthalnathji was given the Name as Gosaiji, The server of Gai-Cow. So slowly became as ShriGusaiji. And son of ShriGusaiji is Goswami.

quote:

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Dear Gopalji, you write:

1. Jai Jai ShriGokulesh (other vaishnavs say 'Jai Shri Krishna')
2. You write ' Shri Gokulesho Jayati'
3. Respected Shri Vitthalraiji belongs to ' Chaturth Peeth' (out of 7 peeths in Sampradaya)
4. The tilak shown in His letterhead is different to what is generally done.
5. Every Respected Vallabhkul has ' Goswami' as a title.

---

    I think i had tried to solve query of Tusharbhai, if i m wrong anywhere, pls Vaishnavas do correct me. any further query, is awaited.

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

Jai Shree Krishna,

Shri Shreekantji as you have mentioned about great surge in Number of Havelis, that might be true but that does not imply that Vaishnavs are not  opting for Gurha Seva. I always see more n more people buying Sringar samagari and also were ever there is a Haveli you will always spot a Shop with Seva samagri . Even at Nathdwara streets are full of such shops and they are crowded too. And i hope they are purchasing for there Nij Swarups. And over all population rise and different residential locations coming up also contrubutes to rise in no. of havelis.

And to some extend your veiw point is also true.

Niren

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh

    Shreenathjibava is Optional Case. ----> If we had gone through the vaarta prasangs then when we read the 84 Vaishnavas vaarta, we find that Puranmal Kshatriya was given orders by Shrinathji bava in dreams that coem to Braj-Bhoomi. So when Puranmal Kshatriya came to ShriBraj-Bhoomi, he told the whole of the scene what shrinathji bava gave orders to him in dreams to the Braj-Vaasis. But at that time ShriMahaprabhuji was not at braj, but was doing Prithvi Parikrama. So Puranmal Kshatriya had to wait there, till ShriMahaprabhuji comes to Braj. So when shrimahaprabhuji came to Braj, Puranmal Kshatriya told the whole of the dialogues which happened to him in dreams to ShriMahaprabhuji, sso ShriMahaprabhuji first took Kshatriya to surrender and made Sevaka. And then Taking the Subh-Muhurat started to build a New Temple for Shrinathji bava at ShriGirirajji. So the Architects were called to draw the blue-print for the temple. So When first time the architect draw the blue-print, the temple's outlook came with Dhwajaji-Kalash. So Shrimahaprabhuji cancelled the drawing. And again ordered to draw the temple port-folio like a nandalay. But aggain the same picture came. And also the 3rd time the same happened. So here ShriMahaprabhuji understood that it is shrinathji bava's wish to be worshipped in the world by staying in public place. After the work of Temple finished, ShriMahaprabhuji appointed the Bhitariyas, jalghadiyas, Kirtaniyas, etc for the smooth functions of the Service of Shrinathji. ShriMahaprabhuji also fixed the timings of Darshanas ( Astsamay na Darshan-Jhakhi)

   This is one aspect, Now let us understand for ShriNavnitpriyaji, which was the swaroop been served by ShriMahaprabhuji in his own house, and by family members.  Shrimahaprabhu and family members used to do seva of ShriNavnitpriyaji by own. They didn't appoint any such persons like Bhitariyas, Jalgadiyas, Kirtaniyas. So here we find a difference from Shrinathji bava with ShriNavnitpriyaji,. Also ShriGokulnathji, ShriBalkrishnaji, ShriKalyanraiji, etc swaroops were been served at home. Still we say that Shrinathji bava is not an Apvad-excemption??? Can anyone justify how shrinathji bava is not an exemption????????

    Now considering the Vaarta Prasangs. First of all we should always keep in mind that these Vaarta prasangs (84, 252, 78) Charitras r the Ideals, and we cannot compare those jeevs with today's situation. Just in gujarati we say Band besti Paghadi naa Paherai, Similarly Vaarta prasangs teaches us how is the Pushtimarg Important, and what ways to life them. But to not follow them. Just if we recall a vaarta prasang. One of the Sevakini of ShriGusaiji, A Vaishya (female vashya) who used to do seva during the periods (menstrual cycle). So someone complained to ShriGusaiji regarding this. So Shrigusaiji gave aagyna that let her do, but no one should copy her. This is Excemption. So do we get this orders??? Can we compare the Love-affection of that Vaishya for Shrithakurji and with us, to our shrithakurji???

    A miser was directly given Manasi Seva, without doing Tanu-Vittaja, this is Excemption or not????? Do we get this?????

     Achyut das was also given Manasi seva, without doing Tanu-Vittaja seva, but we don't get????? Why??????

      We should question to ourselfes only for this.

      Just take the examples of our pushtimargi's Ideal ShriVrajSwaminijis, They were the exemptions, otherwise the love wouldn't have came. They were females, and still they broke all the restrictions for them to meet shriprabhu. Also ShriThakurji ShriKRishnachandra. Being a Prabhu-Purnapurushottam Parmatma, should take birth in the Uttam Kul, but grew up in a Illiterate -- Aahir Shrinandraijis house, and played did all kridas with the illileterate gwal-baals,. This is not an Exemption????? It is true that it is leela of Prabhu, but We should always keep in mind that Apvaad-Excemption and Niyam-rule, r the 2 sides of a coin. They always follows each other. So even if it is the Prasang of Govind swami or Ramdas, or any of the other Bhagwadiyas, they all r Exemptions. We can only learn the siddhant from their vaartas, but cannot compare them with us.

quote:

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Dear Gopalji,

One more query,  All the prasangs that I mentioned have been regarded by you as follows:

1. Shrinathjibava is the optional case
2. Govindswami's prasang cannot be followed
3. Ramdasji cannot be quoted

Is it really reasonable to grade everything that is not suitable to our logic as ' Exceptions or impossibilities'  that cannot be accepted as justification.

Tushar.

---

   Still some doubt, then further queries r welcomed.

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh

    One of my friend when opens the shop, he first does pranam before entering the shop, Then he enters the shop, and does the Diva-Batti in front of a Chitraji of Shrinathji bava. He had also covered the chitraji of Shrinathji bava with Vastraji. Now he says that before starting sales in the shop, i do seva of shrinathji.

    One Doctor family in Padra, which is personally known by me, just offers misri and completes the whole kram of serving thakurji in 15-20 mins. they also say we do seva. They purchases vastras, etc for their shrithakurji.

    My question is that Does ShriMahaprabhuji showed us the seva prakaar as this way???/ Shrimahaprabhuji used to give orders to any of the Vaishnava who came to shrimahaprabhuji and became sevak, ShriMahaprabhuji gave aagyna that This Thakurji is my sarvasva and do seva with saavdhaanta-keeping eyes open, properly. Do samarpan first to shrithakurji and then use for own.

    Now someone can counter-question to me that when there is rule-there is exemption. Yes, but here exemption cannot help us the, because neither we follow orders of ShriMahaprabhuji, or nor of our own ShriGurucharan, then how the exemption-apvaad will work????? Shrimahaprabhuji gave aagyna that Seva Krutir Guror Aagyna .... Bandhanam vaa Hariicchaya.... To do seva according to the orders of our ShriGuruchran, but if ShriPrabhu's wish differs from ShriGUrucharan's orders, then u can follow ShriPrabhu's wish. That means a rule is to follow orders of ShriGuruchran, but also shown that exemption can be taken if shriprabhu's wish is different.

   If the Markets of ShriNathdwara is crowded, then we should justify ourselves that how much market-sales. During diwali the most old bazaar of baroda was to much crowded, but when the actual sales in market comes we find that only 10 percent of the actual crowd purchased anything. So by seeing the croud we cannot justify the eagerness.

quote:

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Jai Shree Krishna,

 

Shri Shreekantji as you have mentioned about great surge in Number of Havelis, that might be true but that does not imply that Vaishnavs are not  opting for Gurha Seva. I always see more n more people buying Sringar samagari and also were ever there is a Haveli you will always spot a Shop with Seva samagri . Even at Nathdwara streets are full of such shops and they are crowded too. And i hope they are purchasing for there Nij Swarups. And over all population rise and different residential locations coming up also contrubutes to rise in no. of havelis.

And to some extend your veiw point is also true.

Niren

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Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

Jai Shree Krishna

Niren bhai,

If one has gruha seva, and performes the seva daily, celebrates utsavs with shree Thakorji, offeres manoraths to our own nijswaroopa, then were is time to go to havelis at all.

And how do Havelis come up ?

It us vaishnavs who generate them through donations, fund raisers etc. etc. We voluntarily request Shree Vallabhkul to open a new haveli situated at a convenient location, for easy access etc. On the contrary, how many of us go and request the Vallabhkul to bless us with seva ?

Let us accept and realise the fact that it is a startling reality that we as Vaishnavs have clearly deviated from the path of Gruha seva and have resorted to a more convenient alternative of visiting havelis, having darshan, and reverting back to our day to day lifestyle.