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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004
1853 Posts
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 Posted - 15 July 2005 : 14:39:53
If one were to observe the general trend of our Pushtimargiya society, nowadays, there seems to be a great surge in the no.of havelis coming up, not only in India, but all over the world. No doubt most of them are being established at the initiative of Vaishnavs.
The question is, As Vaishnavs should we opt for establishing Havelies or do SEVA at home ?
Are we shying away from accepting the responcibality of doing SEVA ??
Do we build Havelis as a easy way out ???Shree Vallabha dheesh ki jai
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Jigna
Pushtikul Elite Member - October 2003
219 Posts
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Posted - 15 July 2005 : 15:43:46
Jai Shree Krishna,
In the recent times one see the the springing up of HAvelis. The reason behing this is of course the fast paced life style which people have adopted. So HAvelis are the easy solution as the Seva PRachaar is taken care of by the HAveli care takers.
In one way I do think one is shying away frm the responsibility of Nij Seva and also one thinks tht seva ma chok Bhol thae se so better to have HAvelis instead.
Regds
Jigna
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gopal
Pushtikul Elite Member - August 2003
1221 Posts
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Posted - 15 July 2005 : 17:26:39
Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,
There is no doubt that Pushtimarg of ShriMahaprabhuji was fully free from haveli's and only the initiative was of ShriGruh Seva only. Moreover, Jignaji, haveli's is not the easy solution of seva prachaar, as it doesnot teach jeevs to do seva. Moreover seva at haveli's is not allowed to every jeev, comming for darshana, but only part sevas to get satisfied.
Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda
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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004
1853 Posts
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Posted - 15 July 2005 : 17:57:05
Jai Shree Krishna
As rightly said, at Havelis only Vittaja seva is possible, Tanuja seva is not possible, and if at all possible only to a limited extent.
But the very concept of Pushtimarg lies in SEVA of Shree Thakorji. Now, on one end we build havelis and incorporate the seva pranali etc, but actually do not participate in the actual seva at all. What is worse we supervise through committees etc. Shree Thakorjis seva done by others. We become supervisers of Prabhus seva, instead of actually doing it.
Now the reason for not taking up Nijseva as said is changing lifestyles, fear of doing things wrongly or simply the problem of continuity. But then all this, if looked at from the point of view of Seva done with the bhaav of Gopijan seem meaningless, for Prabhu has not different lifestyle, we through brahamasamband have already handed over everything to him. Regarding fear, we are not following vedic rituals, but are performing seva as Gopis, so then only bhaav matters, and continuity of seva in the family is a matter of choice, not an act of compulsion.
Well the point is is it right to shrug from the responcibality of doing Nijseva and seek solace in building havelis and being a mere witness to the devine process of SEVA ?
Shree Vallabha dheesh ki jai
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manish1
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Posted - 16 July 2005 : 04:33:46
Jai Shri Krishna,
Shreekant bhai, interesting topic, can be said both ways glass half full or half empty :)
For us to stay in touch with other vaishnavs we do need some common place where they can have satsang, classes and also perhaps learn about our marg. Yes ideally that place can be a Vaishnavs house, but due to logistics reason that might not always be possible.
also as in Mumbai, there is Shree Vallabh Sukhdham in Kandivali, which is not a haveli, but where they just have a library and facility to have regular satsangs and pravachans to be given by Vallabhkul balaks. so that saves the purpose as well.
someone once mentioned that Bethakhji are schools of pushtimarg, so true, but not everyone might have access to that school so an Haveli or like Shree Vallabh Sukhdham server as an alternative.
but having said that it is not a replacement for home seva and that is the main principle of Pushtimarg.
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No doubt most of them are being established at the initiative of Vaishnavs.
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but they might even be with blessings of Vallabhkul.
just a few thoughts, pardon me if i have said something wrong.
Jai Shri Krishna
Manish
Jai Shree Krishna
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sudhir
Entry Level Member
7 Posts
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Posted - 16 July 2005 : 06:54:46
Jay Shree Kishna,
In principle I agree with Shreekant bhai as well as Gokulesh Parivar that we should follow Shree Mahaprabhuji's instructions to perform Grah Seva.However it seems highly unlikely that many can follow such a divine instruction without input, influence or even right kind of company.
Haveli or Vallabh Centers along with satsang will influence one to take a right path and genrate more love towards Krishna. Unless there is a feeling and love developed towards Krishna, or for that matter anyone,you can not truely serve Him or that person.Truely speaking,to-day's society and surrounding inside or outside of the house do everything exept encourage love towards Krishna.
Most of all you must be showered with Krishna's Kripa (grace)to really longe to serve Him.
We can not ignore pious places like temples altogather. Shree Vallabh vision and instructions are absolute truth,but do we (To-day's Vaishnavs)even deserve such a previlage when we can not follow instructions given in Sidhant Rahasya. If anything Temples will help as long as Shree Mahaprabhuji's principles are promoted
authentically.
Jay Shree Krishna
Sudhir
Edited by - sudhir on July 16 2005 10:06:09
Jay Shree Krisna
Sudhir Mathuria
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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004
1853 Posts
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Posted - 16 July 2005 : 13:44:22
Jai Shree Krishna
Good responces Manish and Sudhir bhai.
I sincerely hope all members voice their opinion on this topic. There are many learned vaishnavs who can truely enlighten us on the same. Furhter, this is a topic that touches all of us, and each of us have our own justified stand towards the same. Presenting our view points will most certainly help all of us understand the marg and its siddhants better.
Let me also add that the purpsoe of psoting this topic is only to have Vaad and not vivaad. Only for better understanding and not to argue.
Well, Sudhir bhai, you have touched a very important issue, as rightly mentioned today our havelis have become temples, devalays. In such a case, how are they different from any other temple, accept for the Asht samay seva, performed by the mukhyajis. The very fact that we have started to develop amibiguity between Temples and havelis, highlights the danger level we have reached in truely understanding our Marg.
And more importantly, the younger generation most often relates a Pushti haveli and other devalays to be similar, if not the same, and thus begins the mixed journey of devotion, were in pushti bhakthi loses its focus and worship of all types and kind start.
On the other hand, Nijseva leads to personal inquisitiveness, which most often unfolds the devine pushti experience, and thus ensures that the seeds of the bhakthi marg are sown in Jeev.
But however, the fact remains that more and more vaishanvs today opt a Mandir oriented seva, than Nijseva. The question to be addressed is why so ?
Shree Vallabha dheesh ki jai
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ShyamS
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Posted - 17 July 2005 : 22:06:28
Jai Shree Krishna
In my humble opinion. You can have a Haveli and also perform Seva at home.
As stated earlier, we do need a center point for Vaishanavs to visit for satsang.
Thakurji residing in a Haveli is a Sarvo Uddhar swarup. Where by all jivas are able to have darshan. Correct me if I am wrong. If so, then there is a need for a Haveli.
Where as in graha seva we can limit the people who have Thakurji's Darshan. Our own bhav gets enriched. Performing graha seva takes a lot of time and effort. And possibly conflict if other family members do not support us.
To touch on something that was said earlier.
To prevent a Haveli from being a devalay/temple Goswami Balaks and Betijis should given the opportunity to overlook and be throughly involved in its running and ensure that seva is performed as per the principles.
There isn't much point in building a Haveli if it will not be looked after by Goswamis. Balaks & Betijis are qualified and should be responsible for its welfare and not the people who decide in a committe (unless they perform seva on their own and have a firm understanding).
One question we have to ask. In the UK we are fortunate that Goswami Balaks reside permanently. Should we not go to them to learn from them? Make their place the center point?
I am sorry if I have offended anyone.
Edited by - ShyamS on July 17 2005 22:08:00
Shri Vallabhadesh ki jay!
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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004
1853 Posts
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Posted - 18 July 2005 : 12:19:29
Jai Shree Krishna
Shyam bhai thankyoo so much for expressing your views.
In Pushtimarg, to the best of my understanding, there is only one Sarvodharak swaroop, that is of Shree Govardhannathji, presently at Nathadawara. All other swaroopas are Nijswaroopas only, either belonging to Vaishnavs or Gobalaks. The choice of allowing darshan is left to the respective vaishnav or Gobalak.
It is in fact the random appearance of Havelis at various places, (though being under the advice of various Gobalaks, the day to day seva is performed by Mukhiajis only.) that as lead to the mispaced belief that the swaroops in havelis are all sarvodharak swaroopas.
Well regarding a meeting place, yes, community halls for Satsang are most welcome, but certainly such a need does not necessarily mean construction of havelis, does it ?
Shree Vallabha dheesh ki jai
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pushtidas
Mover & Shaker Member
398 Posts
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Posted - 18 July 2005 : 13:41:28
Jai Shree Krishna
A very interesting reading. In Haveli we have "vaibhava" (Luxury) in Nidhi Seva. There are substances of difference in Vaibhava and seva styles in both Haveli and Graha Seva.
We see in the olden days that many "Niskinchan" (Financially not so strong) vaishnavs cannot do that sort of Vaibhava and used to visit Haveli and do the darshan of Nidhi Swaroop full of Vaibhava. They then in return depict such vaibhava into their Mansik (mental state) with Graha Seva. This way they used to acquire solace in the seva.
Dasa no das
Pushtidas
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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004
1853 Posts
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Posted - 18 July 2005 : 15:38:44
Jai Shree Krishna
Well truely agreed. And definetly there is a difference in styles in seva at Haveli and Gruha seva.
Pushtidasji, as pointed out by you to do mansi of Vaibhav in Gruha seva, at first requires to have Gruha seva in ones own home. But today Gurha sevas is not an encouraging trend among Vaishnavs, were as Havelis are becoming a growing feature. Mind you these are havelis were No Gobalak is biraajman, but being run by Trust formed by Vaishnavs.
The fact remains, that we Vaishnavs are opting for Havelis as an alternative to Gruha seva. Is such an option available and for the sake of Vaibhav, can we delegate the option Gruha seva ????
Shree Vallabha dheesh ki jai
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