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vinod
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Posted - 19 October 2004 : 19:52:43
Dear Shreekanbhai
Jai Shree Krishna
Thanks for the explainations.
So monies given to Bhramins in return for reciting Bhagwatam, exchanged for services rendered- convert the terminolgy or Bhav into DAAN, is OK?
The very Daan, Bhramin uses for the welfare of his family, now this in my books is not a trade, perhaps you or Gopalji or even pushtidas if he is reading, can translate this in to appropriate language.
Please take note that, I am not opposing your views or priciples in Pushtaks, but trying to be practical and prevent my self committing any offenses.
Jai Shree Krishna
Vinod Savjani
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pushtidas
Mover & Shaker Member
398 Posts
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Posted - 19 October 2004 : 20:27:47
Jai Shree krishna,
Can anyone define "Vyavarti"? If you look at Bhram Purana, Brahmin's were in that "avtaar" as Brahmin and they were under obligation to all Demy God,Godesses and God. As far as Brahmins obligations are, they are suppose to be the schollars of Religions, Vedas and Vedic rituals. In not far distant time, people were not that literate and were unable to understand Vedas, Purans, Bhagvatji, Ramayana etc., and it was a trend to call "VIDVAN" (or a Brahmin) to read these screptures, testaments and granths.And in return, Brahmins were given Dakshinas (DONATIONS) by "Yajmaan" (the person who organised this reciting in first place). Brahmins are by birth as mentioned above, have right to use Granth for "Viyavrati".
But on the same token, a "Sugra" or "Vaishiya" has no birth right to recite all these scriptures, granth or any Vedatic books for his livelihood, "Viyavrati".
For Vaishnava, excepting Shree Bhagvatji as "AKSHAR BRAHM" or "SHAKSHAT THAKORJI NU SWAROOP" then they are not right in using the Bhagvatji as Viyavrati. We have witnessed prasangs in 84 and 252 Varta's where one has excepted sarnagati in Pushti Marg has stopped reciting Bhagvatji.
We have seen Ramayana has been used to generate money for good cause and that is a mariyada pratha and in Pushti Maraga we have more deeper understanding of Shree Bhagvatji, and thanks to Shree Vallabh who really opened the DASHMA SKANDH to us Jiva. With only Dashma Skandh we have so much jewels in Pushti Crown, imagine if Shree Vallabh had chance to reveal whole of Shree Bhagvatji, then wow...sky would be the limit.
Daso no das
Pushtidas
Dasa no das
Pushtidas
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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004
1853 Posts
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Posted - 21 October 2004 : 10:23:53
Jai Shree Krishna
Very true gopal bhai, as mentioned in the Article, pushti bhakthi finds its mention even in teh vedas, in Mandakopanishad is said that...
Nayamatma Pravchenen labhyo
Na medhya na bahuna shruten !
Yamesh vrunute ten labhyastasyay -
Shatma Vivrunute Tanu swaam !!
Which means...
Shree Thakorji, Bhagwan Shree Krishna, cannot be pleased either by reading shastras or by reciting them. He is neither pleased by our great knowledge nor by our deeds. He bestows his love only on those on whom he feels to be his own. and such beings who long for nothing but him alone only are granted with Pramatmas eternity.
Shree Vallabha dheesh ki jai
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vinod
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Posted - 21 October 2004 : 19:41:18
Dear All
Jai Shree Krishna
The subject has two criterias:
1. Funds for doing Bhagwat Saptha.
2. Earning of or for an Oratator of Bhgwat Saptha.
In the case of 1. Bhagwat Saptha:- The need to to collect funds for Bhagwat Saptha is in direct infringment of Shree Mahaprabhujis Principles. So collection of funds for Bhagwat Saptha is not supported.
2. Earning of an Oratator by reciting Bhagwat Saptha:- Common sense tells me He/She is entitled to something (Bhet/Daan or something in return)
Now doing this, is also an infringment of Mahaprabhujis Principle according to Gopaljis posting above.
Having agreed and cleared the matter that fund collecting for the purpose of reciting Bhagwat Saptha is NOT acceptable, what of the very person who recites the Shreemad Bhagwat?
So going back to previous discussion, How does this person support himself/his family, since his occupation is only reciting Shreemad Bhagwat?
Pushtidas's posting and Gopalji's posting have two views and since we are not the final authority to conclude, should we now say that the matter be left to an indvidual's intelligence to decide, or does the subject needs to be explored more?
Edited by - vinod on October 21 2004 19:42:36
Jai Shree Krishna
Vinod Savjani
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Vasant Punjabi
Vice-President & Pushtikul Elite Member - May 2003
1047 Posts
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Posted - 21 October 2004 : 20:21:28
Jai Shri Krishna,
Vinodbhai well said it.
Let me see If I can explain little bit.
Please note Brahmins are all allowed to collect Dhan/Bhet for any reasons and use for their family support but they have rules to follow.
For The amount of money collected they have a formula that they have to do Gayatri Jaap that many times to dissolve any sins if any may occur.
So one must be particular to make sure you select the right Brahmin and that Brahmin follow the rules and regulations of the Brahman they both are not committing any sins.
So please take good care for the Brahmins and make sure your donations are going to the right one.
Above was expalined to me by one Goswamin Balak.
Vasant
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vinod
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Posted - 22 October 2004 : 00:10:42
Dear Vasantbhai
Jai Shree Krishna
Very Well Simplified. This now applies to both -Shrota & Vakta. As Vasantbhai confirms, explained by Goswami Balak, I take it for granted and fits in with my thinking.
Now Gopalji & Shreekant, let us have your input in the matter of Bhramin earning his living by reciting Shreemad Bhagwat.
Bearing in mind what Vasantbhai has posted.
Thank you.
Vinod
Jai Shree Krishna
Vinod Savjani
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manish1
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Posted - 22 October 2004 : 03:52:19
Jai Shree Krishna,
Sorry for jumping in late. But perhaps this matter cannot be defined easily.
But firstly where we go to listed to Shreemad Bhagvatji, the first thing is that they should be a Vaishnav, their intention is not to make a living out of it or that is they do not ask for set amount of donations. All are welcomed to listen to it.
Then us perhaps being a listener, we might want to give some bhet, monetary or non monetary. But this would be compulsory. Depending on our conditions and respect we had for the reciter we might give some bhet.
Thanks
Manish
Jai Shree Krishna
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vinod
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Posted - 22 October 2004 : 05:16:32
Dear Manisbhai
Jai Shree Krishna
Thank you for joining. I am sure you read the posting by Vasantbhai.
The whole discussion was based on the two issues as posted above.
A reciter accepting funds as this is his only means of earning a living. The posting by Vasantbhai suggests that "YES", but conditions attached to it.
Now I am in agreement with Vasantbhai's posting, Do you agree to what Vasantbhai has posted?
Vinod
Jai Shree Krishna
Vinod Savjani
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manish1
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Posted - 22 October 2004 : 08:22:10
Jai Shree Krishna,
Vinod Bhai, I did read what Vasant Bhai said. Thats very true and only other thing I would add to this is that
If they accept bhet/donation, then along with following all the brahminical rules.
They have to only accept what is their minimum requirement for themselves or their family. Also any thing extra they receive should be properly be utilised in service of Shree Thakorji. There is a verse for this, would try and post soon.
Manish
Jai Shree Krishna
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vinod
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Posted - 22 October 2004 : 08:57:36
Dear Manishbhai
Jai Shree Krishna
Point taken and will be looking out for your posting.
So from your posting we take it as "YES".
As for minimum & maximum, my opinion is that it should be left at the discreation of the Shrotas & Vaktas?
Vinod
Jai Shree Krishna
Vinod Savjani
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