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gopal
Pushtikul Elite Member - August 2003


1221 Posts
Posted - 10 October 2006 :  12:08:48

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,

          Tilak is one of the essential mark for a Sanatan Relegion follower. we find 2 types of tilaks in pushtimarg 1 'U - shaped and other || - shaped. THis tilaks r done mostly by males, and females only do bindis. We directly object that a female cannot do tilak . But fail to provide the shastriya pramans where it is been objected. Pls share the ideas on this topic.

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

friendmonu
Mover & Shaker Member


280 Posts
Posted - 10 October 2006 :  13:19:33

Jai Shri Krishna!!!

Even I don’t know the reason but I’d seen the females following Ramanuj Sampraday do a straight tilak n then apply bindi either at its lower end or at center. Even many female members of  ISKON do the tilak like males.



Jai Shree Krishna!!

Regards,

Monica. Go to Top of Page
kaveeru
Junior Member


104 Posts
Posted - 13 October 2006 :  00:26:25

Jai Shree Krishna,

Even I have seen the many women in ISKCON temple they do the tilak like Male.. But I don't know is there any reason for females, that they cannot do the tilak like male..??? I don't think so...

do correct me if I am wrong...

Thanks

Kavita

Edited by - kaveeru on 13 October 2006 00:32:40 Go to Top of Page
gopal
Pushtikul Elite Member - August 2003


1221 Posts
Posted - 13 October 2006 :  11:19:49

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,

                Now a days we find such marks done, that is true,. But does our Indian (Vedic-Sanatan) scriptures permits for a female to do?? Even for Dwij (Janoi), only males can wear, and that also the Brahmans, Kshatriyas and the Vaishyas. So today we find that janoi diksha is given to females of Gayatri parivaar, and the females does the yagya, and havans, but is these all done in the boundries of our culture??? Does our Shastra Permit??



Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

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jigershah
Senior Member


215 Posts
Posted - 14 October 2006 :  10:07:58

jsk

tilak is part of nitya niyam karma  now as per 108 guruji  women are not allowed to wear tulsi mala

while they go through there monthly  natural cycle

some ancient 108 guruji has affirmed that women needs to wear tulsi ji mala and change it and wear a new one on 4th day of the cycle and old malas be flowed in river

janoi and tilaks are described in vedas and upnishads our urdhwa pund is considered as best

stree is not allowed in vedic kriyas so no wonder why janoi is not allowed to women

((and then the legend of women sharing the sin of indra along with earth tree and river  could br the reason))

in pushti marga  stree shudra all are equal or better then any qualified karma kandi  brahmin

so why tilak is not allowed to women    i have no explaination  will wait for the answer

jsk jiger shah



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unnati
Senior Member


224 Posts
Posted - 14 October 2006 :  18:40:50

Jai jai shri gokulesh

Jigarji, could u plz share the legend as u said in ur previous posting i.e. "((and then the legend of women sharing the sin of indra along with earth tree and river  could br the reason))"



Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....Shri Vitthala Nam Vina Mantra Kya Thi Paou......Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....

Unnati Kadakia

 

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friendmonu
Mover & Shaker Member


280 Posts
Posted - 14 October 2006 :  22:33:18

Jai Shri Krishna!!!

The main question remains unanswered the same thing happened in previous topics related to re-brahmasambhand and sutak n all vedic kriya.. so n so . Now waiting 4 a proper reply 4m vaishnavs.



Jai Shree Krishna!!

Regards,

Monica. Go to Top of Page
gopal
Pushtikul Elite Member - August 2003


1221 Posts
Posted - 16 October 2006 :  11:14:57

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,

    In the response to jigarbhai's argument of

quote:
some ancient 108 guruji has affirmed that women needs to wear tulsi ji mala and change it and wear a new one on 4th day of the cycle and old malas be flowed in river

   Jigarbhai is right. But 1 clarification to this point. Tulsiji is always pavitra, and it doesnot get impure during the monthly cycle of a female, But the tulsiji is been poured in the thread of Sutar, and this sutar becomes impure during the menstrual cycle,. So if a female wearing tulsi mala wanted to utilise the same bids of tulsiji, then had to pour the another new fresh thread of sutar after the 5th day and can wear that bids of tulsiji. Sutar thread should be flowed in river.

     For the vedic kriyas from birth till death for a female is restricted, and no mantrochaar is done for a female, Which the Smrutis says.

        The followers of Iskon females does tilak, we should ask them first that whether who showed them to do this tilak?? Because Iskon is the off-shot of ShriChaitanya panth. and not itself a Sampraday. Iskon or ShriChaitanya panth does not show any of the vaules of a jeev to get liberation, just as it is shown in our sampraday. The methodology is not shown.

      Lets talk of few sampradays from the 1st of ShriShankracharyaji's sampraday, ShriRamanuj sampraday, ShriMadhva's Sampraday, ShriNimbark Sampraday and our ShriVallabh's Pushti-Rudra-Bhakti Sampraday. Till here no aacharya had shown or gave orders for tilaks. And even during the time of ShriChaitanya females were not shown to do tilaks. So this is the present age's culture. And the institution whose maximum followers r the Mlechha how can they show us the right path..............

 



Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

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gopal
Pushtikul Elite Member - August 2003


1221 Posts
Posted - 16 October 2006 :  11:24:52

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,

         When Indra killed a brahmin, he got the brahma hatya. So these brahma hatya was shared by 4 and 1 is female. Even when females does the dandat pranam to shrigurucharan and shriprabhu, does with panchang dandat, full dandwat is not done by females as done by males. Because the Vakshsthal of females should not touch the ground.



Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

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Bhagwat
Entry Level Member


51 Posts
Posted - 17 October 2006 :  15:09:48
JSK,

In ancient time, women had rights to perform Vedic rituals.  There are plenty of examples of this.  Devhuti, mother of Kapil bhagvan, Gargi, Arundhati and several others used to debate on Veda and philosophy.  They also used to perform yagnas.  Wives share the right and responsibility of performing the agni hotra of the husband. 

All this is mentioned in the Shri Maada Bhagvatam - which we should all read regularly.
Even the legend of how Indra passed the sin of killing his guru Vishvarup to women, trees, earth and water is mentioned in detail in the SM Bhagvatam.

In later years, people became more control freak and each wanted to preserve his role exclusively for himself.  The rigidity of the caste and social system crept in to protect the vested interests of the leader of those communities.  Before this, we regularly see intercaste, interculture marriages.  Even in Krushna's time, people used to change their caste duties and adopt the rules of other castes as need be.  Mahabharata explains this in great detail.

The restriction of women wearing tilak is a much later intervention.  Due to foreign invasions, women were restricted to staying indoors or within strict confines of community.  Their religious freedom was equally restricted and often, they were not permitted to perform several rituals and religious practices.

This is where Shri Vallabh brought a spiritual revolution and proclaimed that this marg is open to all.  Its meant for every jiva !!!  He also stressed that outer marks are less relevant than inner bhavas.  Lets not forget, everyone is sudra by birth, only after aquiring janoi does a man beome dvij - and takes on the duties of Bharmin, Kshtriya or Vaishya.  So when Shri Vallabh spoke of Stri and Shudra - he spoke for all jivas who have not become dvij.  His marg is open to divj and non-dvij at all times.

Women in the past generally do not wear the tilak as it conflicts with the other shringar chinhas they wear - such as the bindi and the damani - the jewel that would hang down from their parting on to their forehead.  Not that most women were it now, but at the time of Shri Vallabh, all women used to wear it.  This would rub out the tilka and so probably for practical purpose, they did not wear the tilak.  I can't see any scriptural reasons for not wearing it.
However, taking the charanamrit, men and women place a little of it on their forehead and on their throat.  This is also a mark of religious nature and is still followed today.

Men and  women - there is no tatvic difference between them.  According to shastra, there is only one male principle in the universe - the Lord - the rest of the jivas are all female !!  So this debate about male / female is frivolous at best.  When we sit for satsang, there should be no difference in our mind as to male / female - we all sit as vaishnavs.  If Shri vallabh wanted us to segregate, he would have said so.  Indeed, in all our havelies, male female do darshan together, as we are not male / female in the presence of God, we are all vaishnavs !!

To talk of ISKON members as melecha is also unfair and unwarrented.  They have converted to the Vedic fold and have spent a lot of time studying and following our scriptures and should be respected as such.  Indeed, some of them have far greater respect and knowledge of our scriptures than us - we should acknowledge that.  At a time when Hindus the world over are being forced to adopt non-Hindu ways of life, lets not fight amongst ourselves on sectarian grounds.  Instead, lets unite and present a united front.  Though we are 20% of the world's population, we have less influence than the 2% population of Jewish community !!  The only reason why we are still denied proper representation in any gov anywhere in the world is, we are not united !!! 

Lets unite rather than fight amongst ourselves.  This is not the time or place to put up internal barriers amongst Hindus.  Divided, we will fall - as can be seen in India and Nepal.  United, we can rise and make a diff. 

Please read -
http://www.geocities.com/pushti_marg/support-hinduism.htm
http://www.geocities.com/pushti_marg/new_age.htm
http://www.geocities.com/pushti_marg/HGV-unite.htm

JSK,
B

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Bhagwat
Entry Level Member


51 Posts
Posted - 17 October 2006 :  18:23:58
JSK,

Here is an article on how visionary and revolutionary Shri Vallabh was in his time.
We need to recognise the far reaching consequences of his actions and not remain stuck in our pre-conceived ideas of what Pushti Marg means.

http://www.geocities.com/pushti_marg/my-Shri-Vallabh.htm


JSK,
B Go to Top of Page
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