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n/a
deleted
117 Posts
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 Posted - 07 October 2004 : 15:46:57
Jai Shree Krushna !Shree Mahaprabhuji have taken in refuge many female disciples. How was his consideration of women in society? Jai Shree Krushna !
Dharmendra
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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004
1853 Posts
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Posted - 13 October 2004 : 17:28:18
Jai Shree Krishna
One of the biggest gift to women is seva. In the era of Shri Vallabh, before seva, there existed only pooja, and woman were not allowed to do puja of deities with pran prathishta in the temples.
It was Shree Vallabh, who by establishing seva prakar, gave equal rights to woman to perform seva of Shree Thakorji, even if within the confines of there homes.
Shree Mahaprabhuji by establishing the seva prakar, eliminated, the bhram of being a purush, Jati, etc. and proved that to God all where equal.
Shree Vallabha dheesh ki jai
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Inaxi
Entry Level Member
31 Posts
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Posted - 14 October 2004 : 00:08:28
Jai Shree Krishna,
Although Shree mahaprabhuji has somewhat have shown some "ekta" but then one does wonder why then Shree Vallabh in "Tatva Deep Nibandh" wrote:
Krushna Seva Param Vixya Dwambhadwirhitam Naram |
Shree Bhagwat Tatvagna Bhajay Jignasu Radraat||
If we loosely translate this then it will be:
The Guru should be,Shree Krushnaseva parayan, without dambh, and one who knows bhagvaat tatva and he should be "Naram" that is naar(Purush, a man). This is a personality of Guru one should follow.
So if shree Vallabh has shown addar towards women folks in India then why a Guru cannot be a woman? I sometimes wonder?
Jai Shree Krishna
INAXI
Edited by - Inaxi on October 14 2004 00:10:01
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jayvinbhatt
Mover & Shaker Member
394 Posts
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Posted - 14 October 2004 : 08:10:20
accordingly i think it can also be said that ()i have heard it) that when a man in this time does seva he has to do it from the bhav of gopi as we are borned as man but women are lucky because they are borned to be feminine. am i correct on this can some one please explain more i am not very sure of it
Jay Bhatt
(JAI SHREE KRISHNA)
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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004
1853 Posts
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Posted - 14 October 2004 : 10:54:04
Jai Shree Krishna
Inaxi ben, considering the time during which Shree Mahaprabhuji was in bhutal, woman where not allowed to more out of there homes freely, and Brahamasamband diksha also amounted to the authorities travelling to various places and giving the same, hence may be Shree Mahaprabhuji thought it apropriate to restrict it to Male sect alone, for during those troubled time protection of ones siddhants was also equally important.
Also as per the Hindu shastras, only the male discendant of the family inherits the family rights, including that of shrad trapan, considering that Shree Vallabh as desired by Shree
Vithalnathji, accepted gruhastashram, it was only logical to handover the mantel of Pushtimarag and its practices to Vallabhkul, for its safety and proper dissipation.
However, Shree Vallabh did not deny the female gender of the ultimate in Pushtimarag - Seva.
Shree Vallabha dheesh ki jai
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Inaxi
Entry Level Member
31 Posts
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Posted - 14 October 2004 : 15:06:14
Jai Shree Krishna
Thanks for your answer but there is quite a lot of guess work in the reply. I am aware of the historical situation regarding women mariyada during Shree Vallabh era. You will find even at that juncture of era many women boldly coming out of house and did some bold things.
I still wonder that there is more than what has been suggested. The vedic and purans are vage on this but we do have a solid vachan of Shree Vallabh regarding male gender being the GURU. Apart from gendre all the qualities of being Guru can be seen in a female personality.
So I want to understand that is male more superior then female?
I know you have said that the atmosphere was not right at that time so Mahaprabhuji thought that male domination is important so a male Guru is a must. Let us cut out the history for that era and try to understand what "naram" stands for in shree Vallabh's vaani.
I really want to probe what was going on in Shree Mahaprabhuji's mind when he wrote that? Logic guess work is not an appropriete answer.
Inaxi na Bhagvad smaran
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manish1
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Posted - 15 October 2004 : 03:51:17
Jai Shree Krishna,
Dear Inaxi, very touchy and controversial topic. But lets try...
In Shreemad bhagvatam in states that women, shudras and dvij bhandus ( the one having the janoi or sacred thread and still not observing any rules i.e. the fallen bhramanas).
I would start in reverse way to what Shreekant Bhai or others normally say on this topic. That in the past among women and men, men were perhaps more powerfull, intelligent and thus as the scriptures state were qualified to be Gurus. To lead many to Shree Krishna is very hard, thus perhaps that responsibility was better handled by men.
But as in Kaliyuga, almost all men are also fallen down like shudras, plus with the effects women are where they are same as they were in Satya, Treta or Dwapar yuga.
But all men have successively fallen down, thus as it appears to be now that both are very infuential and women make enourmous contributions. And as Kaliyug progresses, men will keep falling down more.
Quote
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So I want to understand that is male more superior then female?
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Answer is at laukik level yes, but at Alaukik/spiritual level NO.
But please bear in mind that more than 99.999 percent men who run madly after Kaam are as they say more worst than women. That includes me for sure.
But when we are referring to Valabh Kul balaks, they being representation of Shree Valabh are vice less and thus are qualifies to be our Gurus.
But at no point the role played by women is LESS than men even at spiritual level.
These are again what I have heard from different places, not have explained it properly and could be my bad.
Thanks
Manish
Jai Shree Krishna
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Inaxi
Entry Level Member
31 Posts
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Posted - 15 October 2004 : 20:04:42
Jai Shree krishna
You have hit the bulls eye, now that we have establish that the old belief was suitable then and as now the trend has reversed, why do we object woman folks taking the lead? Why so many controvercy regarding a Betiji when she wants to become Dharma Guru?
Should we not change our vichardhara and except these changes?
Inaxi na bhagvad Smaran
Edited by - Inaxi on October 15 2004 20:06:34
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vinod
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Posted - 15 October 2004 : 22:07:23
Jai Shree Krishna
As per humble request by Admin, I have deleted the postings. This is now in compliance with the Administrators of this website whom we all respect.
Thank you.
Edited by - vinod on October 16 2004 19:35:52
Edited by - vinod on October 17 2004 00:49:12
Jai Shree Krishna
Vinod Savjani
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manish1
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Posted - 16 October 2004 : 06:54:52
Jai Shree Krishna,
Dear Inaxi bhen, at first I was very scared to answer the questions as I thought you might disagree and I did not have more clarifications. Or more even, that you might even ask more questions?? just joking.
As correctly stated by Vinod bhai,
Still only early days of Kaliyuga, thus some resistance might still be there. But we the contribution of Param Pujya Shree Indira Betiji or for that matter the contribution of all Bahujis is worth noting.
Also bear in mind, among all the Sampradayas, I think Pushtimarg is the only one where almost all Gurus are in Grashta Aashram. And to not recognise the contribution of women in that case is like saying motor bike runs on one wheel.
Thanks
Manish
Jai Shree Krishna
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Inaxi
Entry Level Member
31 Posts
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Posted - 16 October 2004 : 14:13:19
Jai Shree Krishna,
We as Vaishnava are never afraid to ask questions and never afraid to answer, Shame on you my valabh's pyara vaishnava Manishji....JOKING....HA HA HA!!!
Now that was what I was coming to, "The INDIRA BETIJI" pakran. Well Vinodbhai, you have shown the nishtha, but we have a controversy regarding Pushti dixa given by Shree JIJI, as about 8 years ago JIJI's eldest brother Shree Mathureshwarji Maharajshree himself said in his vachnamrut that we have to give this diksha again to all Jiji's followers and this shocked me.
I and many vaishnava has acquired a lot of inspiration from Indira Betiji and have aggregated a lot from her devine vaani, not only I, but, the United Kingdom vaishnava have been awaken by her teachings and her madhur vaani.
So we ignor Shree vallabh's "naram" pada in that sloka? Can we defy shree Vallabh's vani? If the reply is no, then has Parampujya Indira Betiji (JIJI to all UK vaishnava)defied Shree Vallabh's vachan? I am sure she has not, otherwise, she would not give Bramsambadh to her followers. Then what is that element that has provoked Her Highness to take a contoversy steps? Pujiya Jiji has always maintained her silent on this, so what is the answer?
Inaxi na bhagvad smaran.
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Shree Mahaprabhuji's attitude towards Women
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