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pushtidas
Mover & Shaker Member


398 Posts
Posted - 11 October 2004 :  15:34:45
Jay Shree Krishna The answer is yes. Daso no das Pushtidas

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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004


1853 Posts
Posted - 11 October 2004 :  15:47:49
Jai Shree Krishna Pushtidasji, i thought of taking this discussion forward, but on second thoughts, i will not. And today, i repent for sharing my gruhseva details in this forum, and i think it to be a lesson to not to do so anymore. I realise that there are many things one ought not to discuss in a forum. Thank you for your outburst Pushtidasji, a great realisation has dawned on me today.

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pushtidas
Mover & Shaker Member


398 Posts
Posted - 11 October 2004 :  17:40:45
Jai Shree krishna Shreekantji, please do take the discussion forward and you have all adhikaar in sharing your thoughts and vichaar on Pushtikul website as much as I or any other vaishnava. I do not want to miss your satsang and your knowledge. I remember we also exchanged outburst in past regarding seva and wether a vaishnava can tell other vaishnava about seva prakar, I learned alot from your strong stand and also from Gopalbhai, we are doing satsang and as long we keep our pushti Mariyada, shista, sidhanta and parampara,we can have occassional outbursts to make a point. Please, please do not sadden the issue and do not get depaired, I as usual always get into trouble because I strongly believed in Vallabhs nishtha and would like to protect Vallabh's Marg in which ever way I can and that is all vaishnava's kartaviya, including yours and I am sure a schollar like you is strong enough to fight for Pushti Marag. So together I and you and all vaishnava put our efforts to protect Pushti Marg and shree Vallabh's Parivaar from evilway of the BHUTAL. So long live PUSHTI MARAG. Daso no das Pushtidas

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vinod
Senior Member


201 Posts
Posted - 11 October 2004 :  19:08:55
Dear Pushtidas Jai Shree Krishna I am sure you mean well and what you post herein is your own expression/translation? What you classify as to be trained to get Bhav, I would classify as "A Vaishnav in infancy endeavouring to reach the goal". This is called the cleansing process and ultimately if Thakorji willing one will reach that goal. I would just like to draw your kind attentation to the following, and correction from all readers welcomed. On Sharawan Ekadasi Mahaprabhuji along with Damodardas Harsaniji were at Gokul on the banks of Shree Yamunaji at Govind Ghat Shree Mahaprabhuji was perplexed by a thought. How do divine beings get Seva to serve Shree Thakurji? This was the question that Shree Mahaprabhuji was worried about. Then at about midnight Shree Nathji appeared (in Lalit Trabhangi Mudra) and ordained Shree Mahaprabhuji. The divine souls should take Braham Sambhand. In order to be fit to receive communion with Thakurji their "doshs"will be absolved. In particular 5 main types of doshs will be removed. Once this is done I ( Shree Thakurji) am ready to accept the soul. After Braham Sambhand they should offer everything they partake to me first. Then to take themselves. Therefore everything we take must be offered to Thakurji as already mentioned. Now imagine, If Shree Mahaprabhuji thought the same way as you did?

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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004


1853 Posts
Posted - 11 October 2004 :  19:42:20
Jai Shree Krishna Pushtidasji, Let us go to the starting point of this topic, here was a Vaishnav, wanting to do seva, not because it was a family parampara, not because he was married to a Vaishnav or for want of anything, but simply to offer seva to Shree Thakorji, what did all us Vaishnavs do, qouted Shree Vallabhs vani in bits and pieces to our convienience, stated number of siddhants and what were we actually trying to tell ? Do not do seva. Is this what Shree Mahaprabhuji asked us to say ? Is this an Vaishnavs identity ? We keep quoting Shree Vallabh at our will and pleasure? Tell me in which Granth, Shree Vallabh has given authority to any Vaishnav to quote him? What right we have to use his vani and provide interpretations? If so then why did he creat the parampara of Vallabhkul? He might as well have asked all Vaishnavs to read his works, interpret it as they like and go ahead. Mind you, Shree AcharyaCharan even to explain seva vidhi had chosen only a few among his followers to pass on the knowledge. What is Nishta? To deprive a jeev from serving Shree Thakorji. In reading and gaining knowledge of pushtimarg, somewhere down the line if a jeev thinks he has gained the right to say what is correct and what is in-correct, he is wrong. In this satsang many a times we find vaishnavs quoting Shree Vallabh said this, shree vallabh said that, yes he said, he was Mahaprabhu, but what about us, are we so samartyavan to even qoute him. What he said is for us to follow. And it ends there. Off all the Shodash granthas, and other literary works of Shree Vallabhacharya, he has advised, Vaishnavs to do seva and satsang only. Nowhere has he asked us to spread pushitmarag, Protect pushtimarag, quote him or for that matter even advise other Vaishnavs. Even during the Mala- Tilak episode, Shree Gokulnathji represented on behalf of the Samparday, no Vaishnav was asked to lead. 'Krishna seva sada karya'... how very conveniently the other line that follows has been let off. ... 'Manasi sa fala mata'. At the macro level it only says that a Vaishnavs param dharm is to think of Shree Krishna at all times. This in turn leads to the ultimate form of seva - the Mansi seva. Even in part, 'Krishna seva sada karya' means a Vaishnav should always be at the service of Shree Thakorji, in his physical self, consious self when in actual seva, and in viprayog seva, when not performing seva in the mandir/haveli, Satsang. Shree Pushtidasji, may I, humbly ask you where in this verse has Shree Vallabh highlighted seva should be done of Pustavela swaroopa alone? And finally dear Vaishnav, I am a humble follower of Pushtimarag, with brahamasamband diksha, I have given every thing to Shree Thakorji, my service is to him, and that is what Shree Vallabh has asked us to do. I am no protector of Pushtimarag. Pushtimarag has been created by Shree Thakorji himself, and I do not consider myself samartyavan to protect it. I am a follower of the path, and hope that sometime with Shree Thakorjis krupa, the path will lead me to him. To protect is his duty, and I am no one to step into his shoes You mentioned about Nishta and protection of ShreeVallabhs marag. Now to remind you of a Programme presented by you: Shree Krishna JANMASHTAMI is being Celebrated By Shri Vallabh Nidhi (U.K) on 6th September, 2004 (Monday. 5pm to 6.30pm .........Kirtan and Pada 6.30pm to 7.00pm ......Nitya Sandhiya Aarti 7.00pm to 7.30pm ......"Avataran Puja" of incarnated God- Lord Krishna 7.30pm ................Palna 8.00pm ................Smuha Aart and Smuha Palna Manorath Venue: Shri Vallabh Nidhi (U.K) (Shri Sanatan Hindu Mandir,Wembley) Ealing Road, Alperton,Wembley, Middlesex London Pushtidasji, is this correct? Palna at 7.30 PM. As per Pushitmarag seva, Krishna Janam takes place at 12 Midnight. Then there is aarthi, then Bhog. Palna takes palce the next day as a part of the Nandamahotsava. I wanted to question this at the very moment, but refrained. What made me stop was the fact that, inspite of being so far away from ones culture, homeland, the fact that Vaishnavs where performing such a manorath is in itself a commendable act, to question it is not right. With a similar view I welcomed Shree Manish bhais aaturtha to do seva. To guide him further to have his swaroopa pushtified when he comes to India, may have increased in desire further and led him seek Pushitification early rather to do what we are doing now. While in satsang, let us not forget the disciplines of satsang, and certainly outbursts is not a part of it. Let us not forget that during the Mala-tilak revolt, Vaishnavs fought for the rights through logical means, not through outbursts, even the cunning Chidrup was allowed to play his part, the Victory was achieved by being within limits, not outbursts. However, If by hurting Vaishnavs, calling their logical process of imparting seva as a trial process, Pushtimarag can be protected, then so be it. I am willing to take many hundred folds of them. Mind you all Vaishnavs, all this has been written under extremly conscious circumsatances, without any intentions of hurting others. However, if I have mentioned any single word that is otherwise, please pardon me and my humble apologies fro the same. And personally Shree Pushtidasji. these are only my point of views, I may be wrong, and I advance I offer my apologies to you for any misquotes and unwanted expressions. Shree Krishnaya namaha Shree Gopijana Vallabhaya namaha Shreemad Acharya kamalebhyo namaha Shree Gusainji paramdayalve namaha Shree Guruve namaha Edited by - shreekant22 on October 13 2004 18:33:56

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pushtidas
Mover & Shaker Member


398 Posts
Posted - 12 October 2004 :  01:37:37
Jai Shree krishna Well done Shreekantji, I like a chalange when a satsang takes this mode. To start with I am not an authority on Shree Vallabh and all his teachings and moreover, I am still learning to be a vaishnava, but what I understood was that seva prakar and agiya to do seva is Shree Vallabh and the Vallabh's Parivaar and who are we to say don't worry go ahead and do seva of a swaroop which has not been pushtaviya. Seva is a pusht swaroop seva but when it is not been a pusht swaroop then that seva is Mariyada swaroop and it is not a seva it it a Puja. (quoted directly from Shree Gokulutsavji's Seva Sibir in London). So why do we ask a vaishnava to do puja? I have at any stage not mentioned that a vaishnava to be to deny seva, but channel on the right path and if we have not got the knowledge then let shree vallabh parivar do that. Whenever we study 252 aand 84 vaishnava's varta, they have introduced vaishnava to be to shree vallabh or shree Gusainji, and never advised them to do a dummy run and do seva of any swaroop. This is a satsang and we are here to understand Shree vallabh's granths and I do not have a different thinking. Let us firstly indulge in what Vinodbhai said in his posting about that memorable eppic of "Shrawan" ekadashi, Shree Vallabh was hesitant of taking Jiva into Pushti Marg and as Shree Vallabh said that Jiva is full of sins and is not worthy then Shree Gokulchandramaji did the nivaran of this samashiya, by saying that once shree vallabh has excepted the Jiva , Thakorji will except the jiva without looking at his sins etc. Here is a very classic example that once Jiva has been excepted via Bramsambandh then Tahkorji will take him as he is. So once a swaroop is pusht then Jiva will be able to do seva and with all his weakness his seva will be excepted. So why do we have to do a trial run? As far as my comments are concerned they are my views which I have always taken on board and made clear and Vinodbhai, your expression/comment or my comment on infancy of vaishnava does not matter as long as that vaishnava has Pushti Dixa and is doing seva. In fact "Grah-seva " is an individual seva and one does not reveal the prakar of the seva and in general we are even suppose to keep our vaishnavata gupt and not only that in Shikshapatra Shree Hariraiji Prabhusharan also insist to see a patra and then do the satsang, in Vallabh sakhi we also come across SHREE VALLABH NAAM AGADH HAI JIHA TIHA MAAT BOOL, JAAB VALLABH GRAHAK MILAI TUB TEENI AGAI KHOOL. Perhaps there might be some asudhi in above quote but the gist is that we have to be very careful how and with whom thaesatsang is done. Shreekantbhai when you say that I have taken shelter under half quoted verse of Krishna seva sada kariya, and not taken into "Manasi sa fela mate" then for every body's shake why don't you explain what this means and it will be very clear what I am saying. Now regarding where Mahaprabhuji said about Pushtavi swaroop seva karvi, then I am asking you that why does all balaks of Pushti Anuyayi and Vallabh's parivaar ask all vaishnava to do seva of Pusht swaroop? Sooner or later one has to do Pusht swaroop's seva so why should one drag their feet. And we all know that all vaishnava in 252 and 84 and 78 vaishnava ni varta clearly states that all vaishnava have not got swaroop seva and hense it was Shree Vallabh or Shree Gusainji gave them Gauw seva or any other tells, let Vaishnava's guru decide that that vaishnava is for swaroop seva or not. We as you rightly said that cannot instigate or interprit Jiva's Bhautic dasha and give advise. If a Jiva has taken Pushti Dixa then he is Vallabhi Vaishnava and should do seva and not PUJA. Now about the news article on Shree Sanatan Mandir in Wembley, it was a news article so in any case I just reported an event and it does not mean that I approve of that piece or not and this was a vaishnava sanstha intigated by Indira Betiji and with her blessing the Mandir is doing many events. Now Shreekantji, your comment about Midnight Krishna Janam and not at 7.30 pm. Let me explain the way I have been explained by the Mandir Authorities that there is time difference between India and United Kingdom and when in India it is midnight it is 7.30 pm here in United Kingdom and to co-inside the proper mahurat and Janma samay the time was set to 7.30 pm. I hope that will explain the discrepancy in times. Now I find that we are supposed to relay any events or programmes or utsava as a news item and that's as Pushtikul's member we were asked to relay news articles and so on. I don't think any reporting of a event is that reporter's responsibility except the report should and must be based on facts and details available.Why do you, Shreekantbhai assumed that it was my organasation, I never relayed in any case so all people who reports should put a foot note that they are not personally involved. I find this news commets by Shreekantji unfounded except the timing he questioned. Well, Shreekantji you must ask if there is somthing you found was not according to what you think then one gets chance to explain it instead keeping silent. I still say that one cannot get nishtha by doing a practice run but this is a personal attraction towards Thakorji, Shree Vallabh or with one's GURUJI. Thakorji and Shree vallabh 's krupa is required to be Nishthavaan Vaishnava and not by practicing. This is a natural process which develops if your heart is set in ones swaroop. My humbleness in outburst is only an avesh and that is always been there because I am proud to be vaishnava and that is Pushti Margiya Vaishnava and when I talked about protecting Pushti Marag, that is all vaishnava's kartaviya. If anyone saying that he is vaishnava but does not want to protect the panth (marag) just because that is not his job, then where does Pushti Marag stand if everyone wants Shree Vallabh to take parishram and protect the religion? Are we saying that we are here for our selfish attitude that I am here to serve thakorji and not to protect the real path which he is going to walk on? Are we saying that let Vallabhkul do the protection alone and this is not our kartaviya? Have we not read about a param Vaishnava who used win all Pandits and would not let any Pandits to surpass the gate to Shee Vallabh? Why? And please don't say that we are not to their calibre because to my mind we only want to put one over each other. Well Shreekantji aap ko hamara Jai Shree Krishan and not pranam as I don't want to depict apradh in doig so. Shree Vallabhadhiski jai Daso no das Pushtidas

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shreekant22
PRO - Pushtikul.com / P.E.M. January 2004


1853 Posts
Posted - 12 October 2004 :  11:27:47
Jai Shree Krishna There is no challenge. To the best of my knowledge in satsang there is only sharing of information, not challenging one another. It is with this fear that i did not want to extend this topic. However, i bow out of this so called challenge, as it not within me to challenge in a satsang. Also as quoted by you, if practice run, dummy run, trial run, is not being nishtavan, in pushtimarag, in Shree Vallabh, in Shree Thakorji...in humbly submit the following. But may i also submit that this is not to challenge anybody, nor in acceptance of a challenge... Dear Vaishnavs, Ever since the laanchan of doing the trial run for seva, life has come to a stand still, it has been a sleepless night and everything in turmoil. However, With Shree Thakorjis krupa, i was able to get the following samaadhan... Now the question of dummy seva... First of all it is not seva (I used the terminology in my earlier/previous posting to as a reference to seva vidhi) in the actual sense, because Shree Thakorjis swaroopa has not been pushtified. (I have myself answered the question raised by Shree Gopal bhai) Now about the dummy seva: In a Vachanamrut of one of the Gobalaks on Vivek Dhairyashray granth, he has highlighted that it is the moral duty of all Vaishnavs to impart the knowledge of pushtimarag to the younger generation, like we give them knowledge (through schools/colleges) on the various subjects. And imparting the knowledge of seva vidhi is what has been refered by me when i mentioned the same earlier. Many of the seva vidhi have been devoloped keeping in mind the Baal swaroopa of Shree Thakorji, including types of vastras, the many bhogs etc. We are advised to do seva keeping in mind that Shree Thakorji is a Baal swaroop. One of biggest example being that of not to ask nauthing to our nidhi swaroopa, for he is very much a balak, and like we do not give any shram to our own balak, howcan we give shram to the swaroopa of the aloukik balak. Taking this bhav a bit forward, we strive to secure the future of our children, we buy properties, tarvel to unknown lands for a living, and do what not for our own security and the security of the future generations to come. Now, the question is what about this aloukik blalak, are we not worry about his future, who will take care of him? how will someone perform his seva? will they take care of him well or no?... I know of homes where there have been people on death bed, stretching their life only to see for themselves that there thakorjis seva is being performed in order before leaving bhutal. I know it is very difficult, It is very difficult to even travel for a few days away from your home, to leave your Shree Thakorji under someone elses care. Then what to say of leaving bhutal. It is fact that we are no one to think of such events and Shree Thakorji is sarva samartyavaan, he will ensure everything is right. But then is it also not our responcibility to ensure that the seva of our home is done properly, without any shram to Shree Thakorji. It is to ensure this that training for the younger generation is given by allowing them follow seva vidhi with a not pushtified swaroop. Again why a not Pushtavela swaroop, so that no apraadh take place by the jeev, and Shree Thakorji does not go through any Shram, because of the jeevs lack of knowledge. I would like to highlight the fact that the so called 'dummy seva' is done only keeping in mind Shree Thakorjis (The pushtavela swaroops) param sukh in mind, and not for ulhangan of any agyan or the teachings of Pushtimarag. The bhav in this case too is Shree Thakorjis seva only. I request the vaishnavs to see the bhav behind the act and not the very act itself. For in Pushtimarag Bhav has always been given precedence. Regarding the Mandir in Wimbley, Pushitdasji, i have at no point said it is your organisation. And please look at the point of reference made by me, I have only refered to it to clarify my own thoughts, the question of them being right or wrong is immaterial. Edited by - shreekant22 on October 13 2004 18:36:46

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maintlux
Entry Level Member


35 Posts
Posted - 12 October 2004 :  12:25:50
Jai Shri Krishna Shreekantbhai firstly i would like to say is please don't ever think of stop visiting this site because you have a wealth of knowledge which should be shared with anyone and everyone. Don't listen to what others say and do, look at this a s a form of seva to fellow Vaishnavs. It is Thakorji's krupa that we have someone like you explaining some of the things we don't understand and i thankyou for providing us with your answers as it enlightens many of us on topics or issues usually not discussed. Once again thankyou very much. Jai Shri Krishna Manish Keep up the good work!!

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pushtidas
Mover & Shaker Member


398 Posts
Posted - 12 October 2004 :  13:31:43
Jai shree Krishna I agree with Manishbhai, this is not a personal issue it is an issue at large, I am extremely sorry that Shreekantbhai you have now picked words here and there and make comment. Never mind, I am bowing to thee as you have been doing a good work in the web site and today is my last postings to tidy some othe subject I have raised. It was with no intention I want to upset anyone,I think you have really not understood my viyatha and I am sadden because I have not made it clear perhaps my comand on language could be the culprit. I bow thee and forever cherish the satsang, Mara bhagiya. Daso no das Jai shree Krishna Pushtidas

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gopal
Pushtikul Elite Member - August 2003


1221 Posts
Posted - 12 October 2004 :  17:03:17
Jai Jai ShriGokulesh, Pushtidasji, never give up, as shrikantbhai haven't give up. Satsang really helps us to understand Pushtimarg. ShriGurudev ShriVallabh is there to get aapshris vachnamruts, and vaishnavas r there for satsang. Here no one is harmed, or felt bad, if any one feels bad the i think he or she should first go through the topics coments given by the other vaishnava and should analyse own self, might even i might be wrong somewhere, but vaishnavas r there to help to improve. So Pushtidasji, don't give up.

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

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