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 Saakar or Nirakaar
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gopal
Pushtikul Elite Member - August 2003


1221 Posts
Posted - 04 July 2006 :  09:34:01

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh

     SHriMahaprabhuji explained the Pushtijeevs the marg of Suddhadwait Brahmavaad and ShriMahaprabhuji had done vaads for establishing the Saakar Brahmavad. So i wanted to discus here that is our ShriPrabhu-Brahm Saakar or Nirakaar? Why?

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

anpur
Pushtikul Elite Member - July 2003


349 Posts
Posted - 04 July 2006 :  10:49:14

Jai shri krishna

Sri mahaprabhuji says that brahm is nirakar, but it is anandghan swaroop so it is sakar.

this is as my my knowledge. correct if wrong.



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vaibhav_shah
Pushtikul Elite Member - December 2003


270 Posts
Posted - 04 July 2006 :  18:27:58

jay jay shree gokulesh

shree purnapurshottam is nirakar swaroop as thy  is not having satvik , rajsik and tamsik  objects ( vastu).

 

But  still shree thakorji is sakar swaroop as thy is made of SAT CHIT AND AANAND swaroop



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dadaji
Senior Member


240 Posts
Posted - 04 July 2006 :  20:33:19

Jai Jai Shree Gokulesh.

 

Our Shri Prabhu is sakar brahm swaroop. Nirgun (without satvik, rajas, tamas gun), Aprakrut swaroop.  



Haripriya.

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purvi
Entry Level Member


46 Posts
Posted - 04 July 2006 :  21:19:36

jay jay shri gokulesh.

'Prakrut dharma naashrayam aprakrut nikhil dharma roopam iti,

Nigama pratipadyam yat  tat shudham sakruti staumi.'

 Shri Sarvottam stotram is for Shri Mahaprabhuji but Shri Gusainji Prabhucharan has written the first shlok for Shri Prabhu. It means that Shri Prabhu is rahit of prakrut dharma i.e. satva, raj and tam gun and has all aprakrut gun ane Vedma jenu nirupan karel chhe teva Sudhha Saakar swaroopnu hu bhajan karu chhu. Aprakrut etle prakrutina sambandh vinana Alaukik aanandthi bharpur deh, indriya etc..je sarva gun..

Shri Prabhu is saakar swaroop bcoz only then we can do bhajan of shri prabhu and only then can we have all the sanubhaav and get anand of all the leelas of prabhu. We cannot do bhajan of air and other objects thinking of prabhu in them even if we know that prabhu is everywhere. So Shri Mahaprabhuji gave us the saakar swaroop of thakorji for us to do bhajan and go in the right direction to swaroop prapti.

jay jay shri gokulesh.

 

Edited by - purvi on 04 July 2006 22:04:43

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jigershah
Senior Member


215 Posts
Posted - 05 July 2006 :  09:22:48

jsk

dear purvi  by first slok shri vitthalnath charan  is establishing the fact that shri vallabh prabhu is no different from prar brahm shri krishana  108 names are all the names of shri krishna

108 names all describe the 108 leelas of shri thakurji in vraj 

like anand is anand of praktya in mathura paramanand is celebrations and enjoyment in vraj

krishnasya  is hara begging to get a glimpse of the face of lord  kripanidhi

is first kripa on  the dusta svabhav soul of putna and so on

shuddha advait  brahmavaad is all about sakar brahm same is the maat of vishnuswami

when he describes the swroop that was born to perform leela in vraj

shri vitthalesh charan in his nitya leela vaad also enforces this sakar swroop

as prime factor or reason of nitya leela

sakar  nirakar  sagun   nirgun is domain of maya vaad and shankracharya

our theory is SAT  CHIT  ANAND WHEN PARA BRAHMA IS DESCRIBED

and  the suprem soul being sakar  is sat chit and anand swroop

para brahm has to be sakar as per doctrin of shri vallabu

only sakar brahm can be attributed to SAT   CHIT  ANAND  AS FURTHER DESCRIPTION OF SUPREM

nirakar parbrahma cannot be attributed to sat chit anand  as further description of para brahma

or ishwar  or bhagwan or param atma   or omkar

hope this answers the query if not i will try to go in details

jsk jiger shah

 



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purvi
Entry Level Member


46 Posts
Posted - 05 July 2006 :  10:19:28

Jay Jay Shree Gokulesh.


Prakruta: Prakrutijanya te satvadayo………

Meaning – Jema prakrut guno nathi ane je aprakrut sarva gunrup chhe em jenu Vedma nirupan karel chhe te Sudhha Sakrut(Akrutiwala swaroop) ni hu stuti karu chhu.

Prakrut etle prakrutimathi utpanna thata je satva, raj, tam vigere guno jenama nathi etle jene teva guno saathe jaraye sambandh nathi.

Prakrut guno jema nathi em kahyu etle te sivayna guno prasidhha na hovathi swaroop gun vinanu thay chhe – to clarify this -‘je Aprakrut sarvagun roop chhe’ em kahelu chhe. Aprakrut etle prakrutina sambandh vinana Alaukik aanandthi bharpur deh, indriya etc..je sarva gunroop, etle temnu swaroop evo arth thay chhe………Purushottamnu swaroop sudhha saakar etle matra aanandnaj kar, charan, much, udar…(word to word from tika by Shri Dadaji- Shri Gokulesh Prabhu). For more detail pl. read granth.

Jigarbhai I want to say  Shri Prabhu is saakar swaroop not for Shri Sarvottamstotra. Yours is bhaav paksha and I took quote from shashtra and Dadaji’s vaani.

Edited by - purvi on 05 July 2006 10:21:00

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Kadakiar
Entry Level Member


33 Posts
Posted - 05 July 2006 :  11:40:17

Jay Jay Shri Gokulesh,

  Purvi has made a great attaempt to get their.

PRAKRUT ---> NATURAL ( The one which has end of it --- NASVANT) they are all PRAKRUT.

APRAKRUT---> The one does not have any end -Je Nasvant nathi)

    Ned to understand BRHMA:

Explain the terms in contest with PUSTHIMARG / VEDIK MARG:

BRHAMA

PARAMATMA

BHAGWAN

SHRI KRISHNA and It's AVTAR.

In Vedas Brhama ne SATCHIDANAND kahu che ( SAT+CHIT+ANNAND).

BRAHMA is SARJEK-PALAK-SAHARAK.

Brhama have:

1) STHAN(PLACE)/DAISHIKPARICHED

2)SAMAY(TIME)\KALIPARICHED

3)VASTUSWAROOPKRUT PARICHED

BRHAMA IS SAKAR like ( e.g SOUND WAVES, LIGHT, ElectroMagnetic waves: As we are in morden world Telecomm and TV is most common example, Look at this Internet how broad it is?) so think about the creater of this JAGAT.........

BRAHAM IS AVYAV: HE can not be detroyed nor created ( LAW OF NEWTON - LAW OF CONSERVETION OF ENERGY).

BRHAMA IS SARVA AMARTH. ( KARTUM AKARTUM + ANYTHA KARTUM).

BRAHMA IS SWATANTRA,SRVESWAR,SRVGNYA,SRVODHAR,SRAVAVILAKSHAN,VIRRUDHDHARMASHRYA,UNSEEN,... and so on.......

Jay Jay Shri Gokulesh.......

Rajendra Kadakia

 



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unnati
Senior Member


224 Posts
Posted - 05 July 2006 :  17:31:00

Jai jai shri gokulesh

Well Gopalbhai, this is a beautiful topic for discussion. Thanx for all the replies. Rajendraji, your explanation is very beautiful. I would like to continue it with my limited knowledge.

Our body is made up of blood, bones, flesh, skin etc.... Our body and the soul which resides in our body is different. In a single birth we cannot constantly  change our outterlook everytime with a different form. So from this we can say that God is not like us made up of blood and flesh, also he has no form i.e. we can say he is formless. Thats why in Veda he is called as "Nirakaar".

But God possesses infinite attributes out of which 6 main are Sovernity, Heroic, Fame, Glory, Knowledge and Dettachment. He can do, he can undo and he can do otherwise also i.e. Sarvavyapi. Bhraman is abode of all contradictory attributes. Shruti says " Being without hand and feet it runs quickly and catches everything, sitting it goes to a distance, lying it moves everywhere." He has an ability to take different forms. And in God the attributes of sat and chit is present in the form of Jeeva and Jagat. Bhraman is constituted with bliss and sentiments. Veda has clearly stated bhrama as "Saakar". And from this Shri Mahaprabhuji says bhrama as "Satya" though he is Niraakar but it is Saakar and vice-verse.

Hence from this we can say, Bhrama is both "Saakar" as well as "Niraakar".

Edited by - unnati on 05 July 2006 17:45:30

Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....Shri Vitthala Nam Vina Mantra Kya Thi Paou......Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....

Unnati Kadakia

 

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vrajdulhe
Entry Level Member


29 Posts
Posted - 06 July 2006 :  02:55:31

Jay Jay Shree Gokulesh,

Kaun Paave Yako Paar , Brahm Nirakaar Rahyo Gokul Me Khel,

Nand Yashoda Ke Dhwar , Brahm Nirakaar Rahyo Gokul Me Khel.....

Hamare Prabhu to Prakat Hoke Shrimad Gokul me Khel Rahe hain  ............Nirakaar swaroop ne Gokul me ( hamare Ghar ke Nij Mandiir me ) Aakaar liyo Hain.

So, Our Pushti Purushottam Is Saakar , b'coz Hamare Sabhi ke Sevya Sawroop ko Ek Aakaar  hain.

Shree Vallabhacharya Says in Tatvarth-Deep-Nibandha :

    Brahma is sakara, with form at the same time Brahma is Vyapaka, without any limitation in time , space and object also.Moreover , he resides as Antaryamin soul of every soul. Shree Krishna resides in every atom of the universe.Hence, if devotee establishes his devout sentiment in the idol of Shree Krishna then Shree Krishna becomes the deity of worship for his devotee.

It is said in Bhagvat Purana :

By your extreme grace you manifest all those forms that your devotees contemplate with their devout sentiment.   Prahlada could realize Bhagvaan everywhere in the world. Therefore, he did not hold any kinds of sentiments of anger or enmity even for his father, preceptors and other demons who were ready to kiil him. His father Hiranyakashipu had no trust upon Bhagvaan ' s power of all pervasive. Bhagvaan manifested form the pillar if the palace at the prayer of his Bhakta Prahlada.Bhagvaan Killed his demon father.......

 Bhagvaan Apne Bhakta ke Swabhaav -Adhikaar ke Anuroop Swaroop Dhaaran Karate hain. ( read Shree Mahaprabhuji's Name # 8  SAAKAR BRAHMA VAADIIK STHAPKAYA NAMAH )

Jay Jay Shree Gokulesh.



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Kadakiar
Entry Level Member


33 Posts
Posted - 07 July 2006 :  13:02:38

Jay Jay Shri Giokulesh,

   I just want to share one concept of our life in reference to this topic.

Q-1 What is " SUNYA ( Zero) " Means.===> ZERO or SUNYA is nirakar to which mathametician has given a shape of CIRCLE (0).

Now let us see some mathematical concept:

0/1 ( Zero divided by any number) = UNDEFINED

1/0 (Any number Devided by Zero) = INFINITE.

This BOTH CONDITION EXPLAINS NIRAKAR

 This ZERO is BRHAMA ain we can divide brhama in to JUD, JAGAT ( Means ALL JUD , JAGAT and other matters... INFINITE) are exile (Seperated or merged) out of BRHAMA.

Now BUT any thing can not make BRAHMA when the division is done by any OBJECT or to seperate BRHAMA from any object is UNDEFINED.

FOLLOWING CONDITION EXPLAINS AKAR:

1X0 =0 (Multiplication) ==> ANy thing you multiply with ZERO you get nothing different then BRHAMA it always limt to BRHAMA.....

1+0 =1 (ADDITION) ( One self) in BRHAMA is self it self and it limits to it self , You can not go beyond BRHAMA - PURSHOTUM.

0-1= -1 (Substraction) One can take it self out from Brhama , but Brhama can not destroy. So one can eliminate it self but TATVA remains as it is.

     Jay Jay Shri Gokulesh.

Rajendra Kadakia



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